Thelma Ekiyor is an Impact Investor, Development Expert, Social Entrepreneur, Fundraising Expert, Senior Public Sector Project Advisor. She has implemented projects in 22 African countries and has served as Senior Consultant to the Africa Union, ECA, IGAD, ECOWAS. She Co-founded SME.NG – Nigeria’s impact investment platform for women which pioneered the establishment of national and international non-profit and philanthropic organizations. She is passionate about equipping women to participate in decision making – co-founded women’s organizations.
This episode we talk about:
- What’s it like to be a strategic policy advisor for the UN?
- What happens at “Deal Day” at the end of your accelerator program?
- What’s it like to be an impact investor?
- What’s it like starting a business in a country where bank interest rates are 23%.
- What are typical investment check sizes for seed stage companies and A-round in Nigeria?
I would like to thank Gillian Harding Founder and CEO of Zoosh Pay who made the introduction allowing the interview to happen.
Help us out!
Help us reach new listeners by leaving us a rating and review! It takes less than 30 seconds and really helps our show grow, which allows us to bring on even better guests for you all! Thank you – we really appreciate it!
Connect with Thelma Ekiyor
- Email tekiyor@yahoo.com
- Website https://nigeriasme.ng/
- Twitter @thelmaekiyor
https://linktr.ee/ShawnflynnSV
- Shawn Flynn’s Twitter Account
- Shawn Flynn’s LinkedIn Account
- Silicon Valley LinkedIn Group Account
- Shawn Flynn’s Facebook Account
- Email Shawn@thesiliconvalleypodcast.com
Pre-Intro 0:00
You’re listening to the Silicon Valley podcast on today’s episode. We sit down with Thelma Ekiyor, who’s the impact investor and who’s an expert in business development, social entrepreneurship, fundraising, and was a senior public sector project adviser. She’s implemented projects in 22 African countries. She served as a senior consulate to the African Union and she co-founded the Nigerian Impact Investment Platform for Women. On today’s episode, we talk about what’s it like to be a strategic policy adviser for the U.N., What happens at deal day at the end of an accelerator program? What’s it like to be an impact investor? Also, how difficult is it for a business to operate in a country where bank interest rates are 23 percent or more? And what is a typical cheque size for seed stage in A route Companies in Nigeria? This is much more on today’s episode of Silicon Valley. Enjoy
Intro (01:00)
Welcome to the Silicon Valley podcast with your host, Shawn Flynn, who interviews famous entrepreneurs, venture capitalists and leaders in tech. Learn their secrets and see Tomorrow’s World Today.
Shawn Flynn
Thelma, thank you for taking the time today to be on Silicon Valley.
Thelma Ekiyor
Thank you, Shawn. Thanks for having me.
Shawn Flynn (01:24)
Now, Thelma, I just have one question to kind of frame this whole interview. When people think of Nigeria, what’s the first thing that pops in their mind or what should they be thinking of?
Thelma Ekiyor
I think I like the way you asked the question, what should they be thinking of? I think they should be thinking about the fact that Nigeria has the largest tech market in Africa at the moment. Nigeria has fifty-five active hubs. And just last year bypassed both South Africa and Kenya in terms of VC investments. So for this part of the world, that’s what they should be thinking of, I think. But generally, I think the untold stories of Nigeria, for example, is that we have Africa’s biggest film industry. Some point we’re going to give Hollywood a run for their money. But right now, we’re working at beating Bollywood. The film industry makes over 20 films a week and it has really taken over Africa. So that’s another thing that a lot of people that are not on the continent, I think most Africans know about what we call Nollywood, but it’s not well known here. So I think those two things stand out.
Shawn Flynn (02:32)
And then you’re here today in Silicon Valley because you’re a keynote speaker for this amazing event at the Computer History Museum. Can you talk about kind of your journey that’s led up to this point?
Thelma Ekiyor
So first of all, I really need to thank the organizers of the Africa Diaspora Network, led by an amazing woman called Almaz Nagesh. Almaz has been hosting this annual convening that brings Africans who live on the continent and in the diaspora together to talk about different issues. But this year, the focus is on investment. And so I’m speaking at the investment symposium. And it is convened over 250 people. So it’s really exciting to be having this conversation at a time when investment in Africa is really growing and both indigenous investments have also grown as well as inward investment. So, I’m happy to be here. And in terms of my journey, I’ve had in some sense full of people. I’ve worked in different areas. But I think all of the things that I’ve done, we’re shaping up to really equip me for what I’m doing now. I’ve worked in 22 African countries and I think that was my training ground to really understand poverty and what it does to people. And so, there’s a philosophy behind how I invest and how I work with the target groups that I work with, which are women.
Shawn Flynn (03:54)
Let’s talk about that time with 22 different countries. That’s amazing, especially someone here from the West. Most of us, to be honest, have never visited Africa and really don’t know too much about the ecosystem there and even the individual countries. Going back, you worked for the Open Society for West Africa, which is the name of the Source Institute for West Africa. Can you talk about this experience?
Thelma Ekiyor
So, I worked for a spin off that was established by the Open Society. It was called the West African Institute for Civil Society, and I was the first CEO and that was a really exciting job. In that job, I was overseeing 15 countries. Basically, if you’re familiar with the work of the open society, this happened at a time when a lot of West African countries were just coming out of war, protracted wars, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea, Ivory Coast. And so, our organization was really focused on how do we create equitable societies, How do we open up spaces for normal, everyday African citizens to have their voices matter in societies that were predominantly dictatorial. And how do you build institutions of governance, the institutions of free press. I loved the job because I was often working with people at the Eikon stages of the communities and helping them build structures that I’m really proud of have lasted, even though I’ve left that job over 10 years now.
Shawn Flynn (05:22)
Twenty-two countries about Africa. How is each area kind of different? What challenges did you encounter?
Thelma Ekiyor
So, I think the first thing we’re going to do after this interview is make sure you visit Africa. Shawn, I think no matter how I describe it, I would not do justice. Africa is it’s extremely beautiful. Very a lot of places are still on spoiled. But there’s a lot of vibrancy. Then the type of development that’s happening in Africa is often from a place of survival. And so, the innovations that are taking place across the continent are scrappy. They are very dogged. People have to make it. And, you know, when you see people come from nothing and then build something is always not only gratifying if it’s work I’m involved in but also inspiring. Probably to know that it’s only a matter of time, the continent is going to be the powerhouse that it should be.
Shawn Flynn (06:16)
And then you also were a policy adviser for the U.N..
Thelma Ekiyor
I worked as a strategic policy adviser for U.N. Nigeria. So, I was teasing you before the interview saying that I’m a nerd, but it is true. I like to work with putting policies together because obviously, if you’re doing the work that we do. The government structures, the policy environment for implementing that work is very important. So the U.N. brought me on in my personal capacity to help design strategic policies for Nigeria. So I designed a private sector policy for the U.N. for Nigeria. And that also dovetails into what I’m doing, working on how the private sector can invest in development and help with achieving the strategic sustainable development goals. And then I also design a five-year policy for conflict prevention. You might wonder what’s the link? But that’s important because some parts of Nigeria are still experiencing intra country conflicts. And so investment can’t take place, obviously. I’m really, really proud of that work as well, because every time I see the U.N. doing anything in Nigeria, I think to myself, well, no one knows that I was part of putting that together. And so the work that we did is actually shaping government’s interventions, the way government interacts with the U.N..
Shawn Flynn (07:32)
How is that private public relationship with the U.N. and kind of the developing startup or the developing business ecosystem?
Thelma Ekiyor
That’s such an excellent question. That was the reason why I was brought on board to develop this strategic policy framework, because if you’re familiar with the history of the U.N., the U.N. often comes into a country, Partners with a government mostly has its own funds. But until recently, never really took advantage of the private sector in Africa to help with development. So the private sector is the major beneficiary of peaceful communities, of a conducive environment for business. By and large, most of them were not involved in developed. So the strategies about how to connect the U.N. with the private sector. Nigeria has a very, very vibrant private sector community. And so how do you create partnerships to make sure companies invest in the communities? That was what policy was.
Shawn Flynn (08:25)
How is a little bit more of the interaction, because I’m guessing even in the U.N., the people there probably aren’t familiar with the local ecosystem?
Thelma Ekiyor
Some of them are, So, the local staff often are, but the most the way the U.N. works is so the head of the U.N. will be from another country and most of the senior staff. So those people have to learn about the country and they are often extremely good people, obviously, for them to commit their lives, to leave their families and go to another country. And Nigeria is I mean, everyone knows is a contradiction. In many ways, it’s very, very big. Also, it has tons of natural resources, massive human capital, but it also has difficult policy structures. And so, if you want to do anything in Nigeria, you often kind of like driving against a very, very strong wind. And that is what most people that come in have to deal with. But over the years, it has eased up a little. And so the policy framework that I designed was how do you work within the country to ensure that there is synergy between the private sector’s bottom-line goals and development goals.
Shawn Flynn (09:31)
One thing that really is interesting to me when I was doing research on Africa is the demographics, the youth. It’s the youngest continent. The average age, I think, was 20.
Thelma Ekiyor
Less than 30.
Shawn Flynn (09:44)
How is that going to affect the economy moving forward?
Thelma Ekiyor
On one hand, it presents a huge potential for innovation, and that’s what’s happening in the tech industry, is mostly young people that have driven it. But it also there are a lot of young people that don’t have jobs, who graduate from university and have to sit around, and that causes apathy. So if not properly handled, it is, as some of the policymakers have described it, a ticking time bomb where you just have so many energetic young people with nothing to do. And what then happens is they try to leave the country. They tried to some of them would across Africa. You have situations of illegal migration. They get on these boats. I’m sure you’ve seen it in news. Some of them die on the way. Some of them try to come to the U.S. by all means and things like that, because there’s literally nothing to do. I think understanding migration has often been a problem in how people look at Africa because the countries are well functioning if there are available jobs or the ability for young people to start businesses, the numbers of people who migrate illegally will reduce. So it’s a vicious cycle. And obviously, anybody, just like I read about and watch on the news of people who try to come to the U.S. from Mexico and other countries in South America, everyone essentially looks for a better life for themselves and their family. And I think that is something the population of young people is something that anyone who is interested in Africa has to design interventions to address.
Shawn Flynn (11:15)
Is that a problem, though? Kind of maybe the best engineers, best entrepreneurs, even the country. Is it kind of depleting maybe local resources or entrepreneur talent?
Thelma Ekiyor
It is but this new wave, I mean, it’s I always say that Mark Zuckerberg came to Nigeria and he wasn’t invited by the government. He came to Nigeria because of these young techie guys who are just in jeans and t shirts and putting all sorts of amazing innovations together. And he had to come and see for himself. And so I thought that was really courageous of him because obviously was very new environment. But you can see that a lot of young people who are talented, they are just taking the bull by the horns themselves and doing it and oftentimes usually access to finance that keeps them away from realizing their dreams.
Shawn Flynn (12:03)
Before I ask about the access to finance, you just mentioned Mark Zuckerberg visit in. How are the relationships right now between Silicon Valley and Africa?
Thelma Ekiyor
I think that was really something that was an injection to the ecosystem. That was very encouraging. There are relationships that have been built one on one, for example. A lot of us come over here because we have partners here who invites us for things and all of that. But I think having VCs and tech companies not as big. I mean, Facebook is in Nigeria. Google is in Nigeria. Microsoft has always been in Nigeria. I’m not talking about those type of companies. I’m just talking about the average tech investor here being curious enough to say, let me go and visit and see what’s happening. And every time, because I work with some of these entrepreneurs, they’ve all invested because one thing Nigeria has is the numbers. People have tried. People have said, well, that’s in Kenya. Let’s go to Ghana. Yeah. There’s a much more stable country. That is true. But in very shorter periods, they realize that now you can’t make as much money as you can in Nigeria. So we always just wait for them to show up. And they always then find way to Nigeria and set up there.
Shawn Flynn (13:22)
Do the entrepreneurs have access to banks, to VC funding?
Thelma Ekiyor
So, all that is still in the embryonic phase. There are banks, huge banks. Nigerian banks are all over Africa. But the average interest rate for entrepreneurs is twenty three percent. And that is stifling. So most people just don’t bother. What then happens is a lot of enterprises rely on these informal moneylenders who are really charlatans, who just basically take them to the bank. And eventually they spend more than they would have ever spent going to the formal banks. So, that has been the environment. But over the last few years, a new trend has emerged, which I am sure someone will do excellent research on, which is the rise of indigenous funds, VC funds, private equity funds, Impact Fund, mine is an Impact Fund. My firm has impact funds and all that has introduced a new dynamic into the market where banks are saying, oh yeah, now we have competition. And if anybody that wants to work in Africa has to look at how you introduce patient capital because you are dealing with infrastructural issues as well as well as the normal things that an entrepreneur will encounter, you have to deal with a limited or no electricity in many places where people have to work with generators. And so a business plan that doesn’t include a generator. I never get it because obviously that person hasn’t thought about the problem. And so that is the environment. So, when you see entrepreneurs make good on their business models and you really have to take your hat off to them cause you know what they’re dealing with on a daily basis.
Shawn Flynn (15:09)
I’m really curious about what those business models look like and how different they are. You just mentioned factoring in a generator.
Thelma Ekiyor
I’m sure you never have to think about that here. Typically, the capital cities are better. One of the benefits of working across Africa is that I’ve seen that I worked in Accra. I had a generator, but I barely put it on. In South Africa, I worked in Cape Town. I didn’t even have a generator. But then after I left, they had a power crisis. So different countries have their own kind of varied experiences with access to power. But in Nigeria, it’s really bad, obviously, because we’re almost 200 million people. The national grid cannot keep up. So one of the most interesting areas for any investor now in Nigeria is renewable energy. I happen to sit on the board of the largest renewable energy private fund in Nigeria. What we’ve seen, the type of innovations that people have put before us to be finance have really helped create in creating private access to power. If we waited for the government, it would never happen.
Shawn Flynn (16:13)
You’d mention South Africa, Kenya. When a person thinks of Africa, should they think of it as one continent or individual countries?
Thelma Ekiyor
Another excellent question I often have to explain to people that I don’t know much about Egypt. So we are not homogeneous. There are similarities, obviously, but we’re not homogeneous. Every region has its peculiarities. One of the things that we haven’t done very well and a lot of governments have invested a lot in is intra-African investments. So, we’ve always looked to the West. But because of the way that the different cities in Africa are getting very well developed, people are investing across the continent. So Nigeria is a lot more similar to Ghana than it is to Kenya or South Africa, because we’re both in West Africa. But even within the West Africa, because half of West Africa was colonized by the French and the other half by the English, there’s a language barrier. So, Nigeria is next door to Benin, but Benin speaks French. We speak English. So affinities are also formed around language. And so you would find that people would do more. Nigerians will go more to do more business in Ghana, which is what used countries away than do business in Benin or Togo, which are next door.
Shawn Flynn (17:27)
Or European expansion. What does that look like? Do the French speaking countries mostly go then to France and then the English speaking mostly into I’m guess in England or what’s there out of Africa expansion models?
Thelma Ekiyor
The Francophones. They’re called francophone countries. Yes. They mostly affiliate with France and Belgium. And I think there’s something called the Commonwealth. So countries that were colonized by the British are part of the commonwealth. We operate there. But Nigerians on their own. Really formed a very strong connection with the US. And there’s a lot of one on one relationships that have been built over time and investments to happen across there.
Shawn Flynn (18:08)
And then you talk about Impact Fund. Could you talk a little bit about your fund and the focus of it?
Thelma Ekiyor
So my company is called a SMNG, NG is Nigeria, SM in Nigeria. It’s a joint venture between my company. The funding space. I have this annual convening, which I organized. And one of the largest investment banks in Nigeria. We came together to set up the company because obviously they wanted to invest in women. I had been doing a for a few years and they thought, why set up something new? Why not invest in what I’m doing? And so I’m very grateful for that because it enabled us to create a really ambitious and bold company. So we deliberately decided to create impact funds because we were looking at results that would focus on. Yes. Financial returns, but also social returns as well, where women are concerned and we invest through what is known as gender lens investing. How do we ensure that women are positioned properly in whatever sector that they’re working in, Empower women more with to have a voice and more influence in the areas where they work. Help them with access to markets to build strong businesses that can be intergenerational. And so, we’re not just about the returns. The returns will come because obviously the area that we work in is untapped mostly. But we’re very keen on ensuring that over a period of time we’re able to tangibly point to a number of women’s businesses that we’ve built up that would be passed from one generation to another.
Shawn Flynn (19:40)
Now, is there currently maybe a ceiling that these companies can reach in Nigeria?
Thelma Ekiyor
We have two funds, we have the AB fund, which are for smaller businesses often. If you look at the data or do the research on women entrepreneurs in Africa, you’ll find that they are shackled within the micro and small business spaces. Everyone has micro funds for women is always like no one wants women to grow beyond the micro. We are totally against that. We invest in women in an aspirational way that they can grow from the micro too small to medium, and eventually become large because that’s how everyone’s lives should be, should be aspirational. So that’s the AB fund. And then we have some of the larger fund called the Women’s Investment Fund, which is for larger, more established businesses. And then your question on ceiling in doing the research for the establishment of the fund. We found that women have either self-imposed ceiling or societal imposed ceiling where they feel like, oh, I could take a hundred fifty thousand dollars, but nothing more. Anything more than that would just be too much. And that’s obviously because the cultural issues as well. So we deliberately invest in those business to scale and we help them with looking beyond Nigeria, because one of the things that I talked earlier about in trafficking trade, most of the women’s businesses would do very well if they thought about looking at other markets even within West Africa.
Shawn Flynn (21:02)
How does one coach that cultural growth in the sense of, yes, you can do this. You can build this.
Thelma Ekiyor
I’m happy you asked that, because before any entrepreneur accesses our funds. They have to pass through an all-women’s accelerator called “She works here”. We deliberately designed “she works here“ because everything when we did the survey with women’s groups, when we asked them, why aren’t you growing? What was a problem? One was access to information. The other one was inability to learn from their peers, to learn from other women. Another one was difficulty in meeting statutory requirements. So, they have very stringent statutory requirements in Nigeria that legal requirements are you must have to set up a business. And often the costs of doing that is so high that women just don’t bother. So, in the accelerator, we help them do all of that. Then we also then help them with what you would see in any accelerator across the world, which is how do you do your books? How do you build a strong team? How do you function as the head of the company? Things like that. Very practical. Only after graduating from the accelerator do we do a due diligence on them. Because we give them a chance to go back and put together everything that we’ve taught them. And then we invest.
Shawn Flynn (22:16)
You talked about access and mentors. I mean, Silicon Valley here, we have people that have had successful exits everywhere. I’m guessing there’s not that abundant amount of mentors in Nigeria because it’s such a young eco system. Where you find in the current mentors?
Thelma Ekiyor
You are right that they may not be as many as you would have here, but we do have women who quietly have built successful businesses, Like I said earlier, because of cultural issues, don’t want to make noise about it. They just want to get on with it. And in that way, maybe we inherited that from the British as well. And so many of these women, we bring them into the accelerator to talk about experiences. And what happens is most often the entrepreneurs either have never heard of this woman who’s made lots of money, millions in dollars, and they talk about how they’ve built a business in Nigeria. Well, the reason we do that is often to inspire the entrepreneurs to say that, yes, it’s difficult here, but someone is doing it. And so they’re able to talk firsthand about how they’ve done it and how they’ve grown the business, how they’re profitable. We also bring women from sectors that are relevant to the women in the accelerator. So there are a lot of women in the agricultural space in Nigeria, the smallholder farmers. So we bring people that have been successful in that area. Just to talk to them. And when we do the evaluation of the accelerator, it often scores the highest. Those sessions where they’re just speaking to someone who has walked where they would like to walk.
Shawn Flynn (23:47)
Can you talk a little bit more about the accelerator, maybe some specialties of that elevator that might be unique to Nigeria and then talk a little bit about the deal day, I’m curious about that.
Thelma Ekiyor
She works here. It’s an all-women’s accelerator. They’re different timeframes for obviously the smaller women’s businesses. They have a different accelerator from the larger women’s businesses. What we do is I’m sure it is probably not what you would see in a typical accelerator. So we make them do some modelling, fashion modeling, for example, as part of confidence building, because many of these women have been told for decades. You’re not anything. You can’t do anything. So there’s often a self-confidence issue. And to be successful in business, you have to be very confident. You have to be able to walk into a room and own the room. And we teach them that we have an exercise where we make them literally walk through doors and teach them how to come in to a meeting. And before even saying a word, everyone in the meeting is attentive and waiting for you to talk. Now, there’s no textbook that can teach you that. It’s experienced people who come in and take them through this. I’m sure you wouldn’t find that in most accelerators. But we also have a day when we do a potluck where everyone brings Nigerian food from different parts of Nigeria, and we sit together and we just talk about building a community. What does it mean to build a community of women entrepreneurs in this environment, All those things are really deliberate. We’re looking beyond a particular class over time. We want to have an ecosystem of successful women that have passed through us. And so all those exercise the ways of laying the foundation to have connectors. So, at the end of the accelerate, So, they call it graduation. We call it the deal day. Obviously, most of the women that we work with have not experienced what you would call a formal deal day. But what we do is before the end of the accelerator, that deal day, we take them through. Now, the formal part of any business school, which is how do you pitch? How do you not always how you use a PowerPoint? How you just come into a place and talk about your business for five minutes that would impress any investor. And so, on the deal day, we invite other funds, other investors. So we are an impact fund. But what we do is we invite venture philanthropists; we invite private equity. We invite people that are normal VCs and foundations. We invite them to the deal day and they listen to these women. And it’s really been encouraging because some of the women, even if we can’t fund them, they are exposed to these other sources of funding. And that relationship is also part of building the ecosystem. So, we are determined that any woman who comes to us never leaves disappointed. At the very least, she must say she gained skills from the accelerator to improve her business. Yes, the money is often the goal for most accelerators, but we believe that building healthy businesses is goal one. The money’s goal two.
Shawn Flynn (26:53)
Speaking of money, what are typical check sizes and what kind of valuations are companies raising at once they graduate accelerator?
Thelma Ekiyor
For our funds, use ours as an example, because I think they are more fixed sizes. It depends on the sector. So, for example, if you’re investing in a business that does renewable energy, you’re looking at larger ticket sizes, you’re looking at a million dollars or more. Obviously, those are more stablished businesses. But for the smaller women’s businesses that we’re investing, it starts as little as five thousand dollars and it goes up to 90 million. I am trying to do the conversion from naira to dollars. So it will go up to, I think, three hundred thousand dollars. There’s a legal definition for small business in Nigeria as well. So we have to make sure that we’re within that as we do. And then the larger businesses start from half a million and then and higher. There was a woman who came for one of our consultations with entrepreneurs, totally unassuming. And when she talked about her annual turnover, we all couldn’t believe it. I mean, I would have walked past her on the road and she’d never accessed external financing, but her turnover was over five million dollars a year. She makes envelopes, go figure and has been making for years.
Shawn Flynn (28:15)
You said, build this community of successful women founders. Can you talk about some of the companies that have gone through the accelerator and some of the alumni?
Thelma Ekiyor
I have some companies I’m really excited about because I think over time on the markets, they would do extremely well. There’s a business who makes I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of something called plantain chips. So plantain chips are a very African snack. Plantains are like bananas. And so they’re made into like chips. I guess you call them crisps here. And this woman makes them, but she makes them the low-fat version. So, of course, everyone’s really interested in that. Then there’s a lady we’re investing in who has created a furniture hub and she makes affordable furniture because most of the carpenters she works with, they don’t have new tools or anything. We’re investing her to create a hub where female carpenters can come to the hub and all work with the tools she has there, but also able to make furniture. So they vary. We have another woman who makes cassava flour. It’s a staple in almost all West African countries. But her goal is to export it, too. Well, she said the U.S. was number one, but because of the African diaspora here for them to buy organic cassava flour. So, we have different types of businesses.
Shawn Flynn (29:37)
For the KPI or key performance indicators for these businesses, you’d mention successful women. But is it the number of jobs they create? The amount of revenue? What metrics do you use?
Thelma Ekiyor
Another excellent question, so for us, because our focus is on women’s own businesses. We look at how much they own in the business. Number one, a lot of so-called women’s businesses are fronts. That’s one of the things we found out. So it’s a woman. Her husband says we’ll just have something to do, give some money to do it. But he owns a business and he makes all the rules. And so we have that. So we look at that. We also look at how much she’s been doing on her own. We look at her turnover on her own. Before we ever came in, we’re not looking for perfection because we know we’re not going to find it. There’s a lady that we’re investing who keeps her books and paper. She’s always just kept her paper. She keeps her books very diligently, in fact. And so we’re graduating that for computers for her and building a team around her that focuses on that, because that’s not her strength. And she focuses on her strength. We look at businesses that can be scaled beyond where they are at the moment. So what will this business look like in five years? Is this a stagnant market or is this a market that can build up over time? We look at that. For the larger women’s businesses, we definitely look at how they have factor succession planning into the business because most of the larger women’s businesses are built around a personality. And so just like every other business, I guess I mean, the same way that Apple had to think about what happens after Steve Jobs. Every business has to look at that. And so even with small women’s businesses, of course, you often have a very dynamic leader who’s driven the business with passion and conviction. Then we wonder, OK, who can keep this going If she gets tired, if she gets older, you know, what will happen? So, we sat for those businesses. We start to talk to them about building a team that can take over. It really is no formula. And we also are very conscious of the fact that we’re pioneering a sector because most of what exists for the Matrix, for invested in business are based on Western contexts and they’re not applicable many times to what happens in Africa.
Shawn Flynn (31:58)
Succession planning. To be honest, that’s something that we’ve never really talked about here on the show.
Thelma Ekiyor
One of the meetings I organized, I was blown away. A lady, she called and said, Can I bring my daughter? And I thought, well, how does she want to bring her daughter? For some reason, I thought it was a baby. Then I thought, we don’t have a crash for this meeting. Often we would have crashes. But she shows up and she shows up with this 25-year-old girl. And she says, my daughter’s shown an interest in the business and I’d like to start coming to these meetings with me so she hears what investors are looking for. And I thought, amazing. We need to create room for this because the daughter had just come back from the U.K., gotten a master’s and was interested in the business. And you don’t have a lot of intergenerational businesses in Africa in general, and mainly Nigeria. No, the businesses are often founded, based, and they die after the founder or somebody just buys it all. And how do you create. We’re talking about creating a sector. One of the qualities of any sector is longevity. How long do businesses last in the sector? And so we factor that into our investment strategy will help these businesses interrogate and look at the prospect of succession. And it’s not only family, but is there someone on your team that you’re grooming to take over from you to someone that can take this business in a new direction? Often these women have run their businesses by themselves for 10 years and change is scary. So often they are not the ones that change it. Someone else needs to come and change it. And so we take them through that. And it’s a learning experience for us as well, because the textbooks don’t have anything like that. Most people who do this work that we do use Western references and we learned pretty early that there was a disconnect. So we’re documenting everything that we do because we’re very certain that it would be useful for other investors and for other people that want to work in the area that we working.
Shawn Flynn (33:54)
I’m really curious about the Western influence and how the teaching here has that disconnect. What are some of the biggest things that you’ve noticed doing negotiations or deals between the West because you’re here at Stanford and in Nigeria?
Thelma Ekiyor
So much of what we do is Americanize and I think most of Africa, actually, because American culture is very strong and it has permeated a lot. And also, this is one of the reasons why, say, I tell my American friends that they don’t realize how much good America has also done in many parts of the world. And, of course, you can talk about the things that are not so good, but in terms of what USAID and other institutions like that have done in Africa to help build small businesses legendary across the continent, especially in the countries where I worked. Where you had to deal with rebuilding the entire society. A lot of American organizations would always be there. So obviously, that just goes with the territory that many of the templates that are used are American. But with the new trend of indigenous organizations coming up, what we’ve found is that you learn from the West, but you contextualize it. So, yes, I mean, I attended schools in the US. I came here to Stanford and all of that. But when I went back, I used all of that knowledge, which is priceless to design interventions that fit Nigeria. And I think I often say that I’m really blessed to be able to take all of the training and the knowledge that I gain to create something that is relevant for my country. And I think that’s the only way for me personally that you can do that. So the books for my MBA, when I look at them now, I look at them through the lens of will this work here or should I start using the knowledge that I have on how to create business models that will work in Nigeria.
Shawn Flynn (35:49)
If there was anything that could be imported into Nigeria to really accelerate the already amazing growth, what would it be?
Thelma Ekiyor
I think this is one of the reasons why I certainly always look forward to coming here. I learn a lot every time I’m here. I think one of the things that we started doing as well is just a lot of convening that take place here. People just get together and I think we do it already. But I think we have to take it up a notch. I’ve come here and I’ve met people that in a dinner or something. At the end of it, we’re talking about a deal we’re going to put together. You know, we need those type of things. And I think also I talked about the power problem. If I could take anything from here. Every time I’m in the U.S. or anywhere, I never have to think will the lights come on? So, I think just basic things that if we had that they would just change completely the way people set up businesses, but also the way people invest in businesses.
Shawn Flynn (36:48)
And Thelma can you talk a little bit about what you expect the growth to be in the next five years?
Thelma Ekiyor
If I think about how fast it’s grown in the last five years, I’m really confident that Nigeria is going to be a powerhouse. I read an article that talked about that and I was so pleased that they could see what I am seeing. It is the indices are there for a lot of years, be focused on what the government was not doing, but private individuals have ignored the government now and are basically just creating change on your own. So I’m expecting that in five years when I come to visit and I’m talking to you, I’m going to be talking about how we’ve created a revolution of women into print. I am going to be talking about how the tech industry will grow it. That has a life of its own. But I think right now, a lot of the innovations that are coming from Africa are for Africa. If we can export it to the West. Yeah, but mostly the innovations that would change the continent. That’s what people are creating, innovations and education, and health, in the way we communicate. And I think that should continue in five years. I believe that we will be showcasing a lot of lucrative innovations that were created by Africans for Africa.
Shawn Flynn (38:02)
And what type of partners would be ideal for this growth in the next few years or for yourself?
Thelma Ekiyor
I believe that people have to realize that the top down approach of working with Africa has changed. They are now very many competent, established, experienced Africans doing work. So the partnerships have to be symbiotic, really partnerships based on value. And I’m happy with some of our partners here who have already come to speak at the accelerator. I’m looking for partners who are interested in helping us build the accelerator. Knowledge sharing is critical. I just have to tell you this little anecdote. There is an entrepreneur who I was a judge at pitching competition, and she pitched a product that I knew instantly was a moneymaker. And I got a form from Silicon Valley to recommend any young entrepreneur that had come up with a life changing innovation. And I recommended her. She’s here this week and I’m so excited. Those are the stories that happen. She sent me the most amazing letter. And life is going to change. So, we need to create opportunities for people who will never, ever have access Silicon Valley, to leave their comfort zones and come and see what’s happening there. Even if she doesn’t win the pitch, the experience of being here will change how she does business. I’m confident about that.
Shawn Flynn (39:32)
And before conclude the interview, is there any advice on either looking for women founders or invest in women founders? Any more takeaways you want people to know?
Thelma Ekiyor
I think women across the world. We have one thing in common. Any woman who has risen up in any way has faced the battle of rising. And I think what I’ve been doing for the last few years, I’ve been building a lot of networks with other women investors, and some of them have come to Nigeria whenever I go to their own countries. I learn a lot. I think we need to do a lot more of that. Women founders are so inspirational from the ones that have funds that are 10 million dollars and more and the ones that are just starting out. There’s a quality that we all have which is never give up. And I think the advice that I have for women founders is look beyond Silicon Valley, look beyond the US. You will find that you have a lot of affinity with other women founders in other countries.
Shawn Flynn (40:33)
And if anyone want to find out more information about you, what’s the best way to go about doing it?
Thelma Ekiyor
LinkedIn, I think just look me up at LinkedIn and connect. Let’s start conversations.
Shawn Flynn (40:45)
Thelma, I’d like to thank you for your time. I also want to thank Jillian Harding, who made the introduction that allowed today’s interview to happen. Also, Jenny Lynn, who introduced me to Jillian and Nigel and everyone else that I’ve met that has supported this podcast. Oh, and if you liked and enjoyed this podcast, please write a five-star review on iTunes, which encourages us to make more content like this. And please share it and let us have feedback on your thoughts and what you’d like to hear in future episodes. So Thelma once again, thank you for your time today.
Thelma Ekiyor
Thank you, Shawn, I really enjoyed this.
Outro (41:19)
Thank you for listening to The Silicon Valley Podcast. To access our resources, visit us at TheSiliconValleyPodcast.com and follow our host on Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn @ShawnFlynnSV. This show is for entertainment purposes only and is licensed by The Investors Podcast Network. Before making any decisions, consult a professional.
