On today’s show, we’re happy to chat with our very own Stig Brodersen. Stig is a value investor, business owner, and international bestselling author. His podcast We Study Billionaires has over 30 million+ downloads and has been recognized as the #1 ranked stock investing podcast in the world with awards such as:
- #1 stock investing podcast on iTunes
- #1 stock investing podcast on Google
- #1 investing podcast by CNBC
- #1 investing podcast by Business Insider
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- How does a podcast host build a relationship with advertisers for their shows?
- How do analytics play a part in podcasting?
- What are the struggles with having the core team in another country?
- How can one make a career out of podcasting?
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BOOKS AND RESOURCES
- Download your free audiobook at Audible.
- Talk to Stig Brodersen on Twitter
- Follow Stig Brodersen on LinkedIn
- Get the latest updates on We Study Billionaires by The Investor’s Podcast Network on Facebook
CONNECT WITH SHAWN:
https://linktr.ee/ShawnflynnSV
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- Shawn Flynn’s LinkedIn Account
- Silicon Valley LinkedIn Group Account
- Shawn Flynn’s Facebook Account
- Email Shawn@thesiliconvalleypodcast.com
Disclaimer to the Transcripts:
Intro 01:04
Welcome to the Silicon Valley Podcast with your host Shawn Flynn who interviews famous Entrepreneurs, Venture Capitalists and Leaders in Tech. Learn their secrets and see tomorrow’s world today.
Shawn Flynn 01:27
Stig, thank you for taking the time today to be on this amazing podcast.
Stig Brodersen 01:32
Thank you, Shawn, for having me on your show.
Shawn Flynn 01:34
Now, Stig, 99% of our listeners probably know who you are and probably are big fans. But for that 1% that haven’t heard you nor haven’t met you before, can you give us a little bit of background on who you are and some of the things you’ve done up to this point?
Stig Brodersen 01:49
Yeah, sure! I’d be happy to. Together with my friend, Preston Pysh, I started The Investor’s Podcast Network. It was also how we got to know each other. I know we’ll be talking a lot more about that later here in this interview, but that’s sort of one thing I would like to highlight. This is an amazing space to be in, the podcasting space. You get to meet so many great people. I’m so happy to meet you, meet the rest of the team, and meet the community. And that’s sort of like how it all got started.
Prior to that, whenever I say “in the past”, we started our network in 2014, and at that time, it wasn’t really a network. It was just Preston and me goofing around with a podcast. Before then, I was a college professor; and even before that, I was working as a commodities trader. That was my way of going into the whole podcasting space. I think that a lot of people in podcasting would say they had their own completely random story because no one has a degree in podcasting. There’s no traditional path going into what we’re doing right now, which I think just makes it a lot more interesting.
Shawn Flynn 02:51
So then, why podcast? Why did you want to start it? What opportunities did you see?
Stig Brodersen 02:57
Shawn, I would like to say that I saw amazing opportunities at the time, but I really didn’t. More than anything, it was really a coincidence. I have a good friend, Preston, whom I started this with, and he gave me a call. I think this might have been back in the Spring of 2014. We just met up in person. We became friends, but we actually never met each other up to that point. And so, we met each other in the US. I live in Denmark, so some people wonder, “You met in the US? What were you guys doing?” But anyway, at the time, I actually lived in Sweden. Regardless, I flew to the US. We got to know each other and started talking about doing something together. A few weeks later, he gave me a call and said, “Hey, let’s do a podcast.”
Honestly, we didn’t really have any strategy. We didn’t see any great opportunities. We didn’t see podcasting takeoff. At least, I didn’t see that at all. It was just more that this could be a lot of fun to do, and then, hey, let’s see where it takes us.
Shawn Flynn 03:59
And then the team at The Investor’s Podcast Network, it’s global. You’re in Europe; most of the staff are in the Philippines; Preston’s in the US. How did you build your current team?
Stig Brodersen 04:11
Many things about how we started the network really happened by coincidence. I met Preston because we were both interested in Warren Buffett. He just coincidentally lived in the US. We wrote a few books together, became friends, and started the podcast. That was a coincidence. The way I met you and met the other host was that you already listened to the podcast. That was very intentional in that we wanted people who already listened to the main show, The Investor’s Podcast, or We Study Billionaires, as we often call it. That was the idea behind that part. People who listen to our show also just tend to live in the US.
But specifically about the Philippines, again, that’s another random story. At that point in time, I was actually living in Korea, but I didn’t speak a word of Korean. I had no clue how to survive, and I needed someone to help me translate and kind of help me just have a life there. Then I met this amazing person, Bianca Alcera, from my team, and she offered to help me out. In my search, the only thing I asked for was that the person spoke Korean and English. I actually thought she would probably be Korean. She was coincidentally Filipino, but spoke English and Korean. And so, that was sort of like how that started. Then we started hiring the family and the family’s friends, and that was sort of like how it all got started.
If you’re looking for like a blueprint, like this is how you do it, I would not recommend anyone to do what I did; go to Korea, ask for someone who speaks the language, then probably hire their family. I find that it’s just such a weird story whenever I hear myself telling how it all happened, but that is how it basically all happened.
Shawn Flynn 05:51
What are the struggles with having the core team in another country like the Philippines?
Stig Brodersen 05:57
I definitely thought a lot about that before we started that team in the Philippines because, to me, that was a completely different culture. I had never been to the Philippines at that point in time. I barely visited Asia, so it was very, very new to me.
All of that said, I also have to say that I’m Danish. For those of you who listen to this and wonder, “Is that a cake or something? What do you mean?” I’m from Denmark. So I’m Danish. I just wanted to clarify that.
For me, it was actually already quite difficult working with Americans, to begin with, because the culture in the US is just so different. People in the US listening to this would be probably say, “Oh, you can’t just say US. The culture in New York is just so much different than it is in Silicon Valley.” And yes, that’s very, very true. I’ve worked with people from so many different places in the US, and it’s so different how people work. So, just that, for me, was actually difficult. And at the time, I was working with someone from Germany, and someone from the UK; actually, we still are. And then you add in the Philippines. I’ve never worked with anyone from Denmark on this project.
It has definitely been very difficult. A lot of things can be lost in translation with English not being my first language. In the Philippines, luckily, the English is much better than mine. A lot of people are raised with Filipino, the local language, but also with English. Still, they consider Filipino their first language. Even just with that, there’s just so many things that are really, really tricky even before you start adding in the cultural differences. But for us, it was very much a strategic focus. Up to that point, we actually worked with different freelancers in Bangladesh, in India, and different places in the Philippines. And it was just very, very difficult to do that. At least, it was for me. To make it a bit more simple, to make it easier for myself, it just made a lot more sense to set up, it seemed not just in the Philippines, but specifically in Metro Manila, and sort of go from there.
Shawn Flynn 07:51
So, the team in the Philippines. I mean, what are the difficulties there with working with time zones, etc.? There are a lot of people that have tried outsourcing. There’s a lot of great websites that people always refer to, but a lot of them, as you’d mentioned, seem to have struggles. What was it that was so successful about how you were doing it? How have you been able to really create this synergy?
Stig Brodersen 08:13
There are a lot of moving parts really into this as one thing that was a huge advantage for TIP going to the Philippines was that we had one specific person from the team who could set a lot of practical things up for us. She could recommend her family. She could recommend her friends. That was just such a huge advantage for us going into this compared to just you going there, put up your Excel sheet, and say there is a lower cost in the Philippines for a programmer than in Silicon Valley. I mean, that’s a really, really tough approach. There are just so many things that was explained to me.
I’ve been working with Filipinos since 2016, and I still feel ignorant. I still feel that there are so many things that I don’t understand. Often, I feel misunderstood in how I act. So, I think, to truly start outsourcing, you have to make it a strategic focus that you really want to make an effort into understanding the country, visiting the country, understanding the culture and why it’s different, and appreciate that it’s different. Because if you don’t do that, I think it’s going to be very, very difficult for you to find the right people.
What most people do is that they will go to something like Upwork, or they might read a book like Virtual Freedom, which is an amazing book by Chris Ducker about how to work with, specifically Filipinos, but also other overseas workers. I’ve done that and I think it’s great, but you also need to understand that, if via Upwork is your approach, if that’s how you want to do it, you won’t always find the best people in there. Because the best people in the Philippines, at least according to my own knowledge, are typically not freelancers. There are definitely some who are freelancers that just enjoy the lifestyle, and that’s great. But a lot of the really good people, they already have really, really good jobs because stability is so important, and of course, a nice salary is also important.
Say that you’re a good programmer. A good programmer in the Philippines would make significantly more than a lot of blue-collar workers in the US. It probably sounds crazy for a lot of people listening to this, but it does make a lot of sense because it is just such a global world. Whenever I am looking for a new programmer, I wouldn’t say I’m competing with Google, or Amazon or Facebook, but a lot of the major IT companies even in The Valley, have been setting up their own shops in Manila, and they’ve been there for many, many years. It is tricky to do that, but if you want good people, and not just saving on cost, you probably have to do something that’s a lot more committed. See if you can outsource 10 hours here, and 20 hours there. You can definitely do that. But you should also just know that the way that your virtual assistant or whoever you’re hiring is looking at you as likely something temporary, so you won’t get the best effort from the best people.
Shawn Flynn 11:11
Podcasting has grown in popularity. What have been the changes that you’ve seen in the past? What are you expecting for the coming years?
Stig Brodersen 11:21
I think one thing that’s been very, very different for me from when we started making the first podcast back in 2014 is that the quality of production is just so much higher. Today, you will have to spend more time on tasks like doing editing and having a great script. The industry, in many ways, is really maturing. I think you’ll see, in consolidation, many ways, and you will see it become more and more professional. I’m not going to say that it’s going to look like the music business, but it’s definitely going to look more like the music business than it has in the past.
Just know that, as you go into this, you’re competing with different players today than you were in the past. For example, now you even see a lot of makeup podcasts. Especially in the US, the scene really started like an indie scene more than anything else. That has changed. In the future, I expect this to continue to change even more.
I don’t want to discourage anyone by saying this, but as the industry becomes more and more professional, I do think it becomes more and more difficult for a lot of startups with one guy behind the microphone with a passion for something. I think there’s always room for something like that, and I think we will continue to be popular in some niches, but this industry that we’re looking into is very different.
Shawn Flynn 12:38
What do you think will be the major factors for if a show is popular or not? Then the future?
Stig Brodersen 12:44
Let’s talk about what a popular podcast is. It’s a tricky question because if we define popular as top 1% or top 10%, or like, what is a popular podcast really? If we feel that popular is defined by getting a few hundred downloads a month, and it definitely can be for a lot of people. If you think about how often you speak to a few hundred people, it just like never happens. If so, I don’t think you need to watch out for like any major factors. But if we’re looking like at the very top, the podcasting industry is very top-heavy, and probably even more. What I mean by that is if you take the music business as a reference, think about how few artists sells to the vast, vast majority. I don’t know how many downloads the top 1% of artists would have, but I would imagine it would probably be around 90+% percent.
If you really want to make it as a podcaster in the future, I think distribution is really crucial. You can have the best podcast in the world, but if no one knows that you have that, it’s just going to be very difficult. And, as much as we’d like to see and say that if you have great content, people will talk about it and then it will just grow, I think it’s harder today than it had been. A lot of people are still searching, but if you look at the major platforms, they’re already making recommendations for you. Guess what? There might be recommendations to some of the more popular shows because the algorithm would say that’s what people like to listen to. They might not be picking your show. To cite some of the big platforms, Spotify would be one of them, Castbox could be another, and Apple Podcasts would be the biggest. A lot of the bigger platforms have their own studios now, especially Spotify, who’s just been buying and buying and buying amazing podcasts.
Pre-Coronavirus crisis, we saw a lot of podcasters from bigger platforms advertising on other shows. We got approached all the time from other podcasts who wanted to pay us to feature them, and we would do that if the podcasts are great. We see a lot of that. I don’t necessarily expect that to happen too much during the Coronavirus crisis and after it because a lot of venture capital money just doesn’t exist anymore. It would be just dried up. But there was so much money flowing in there just promoting the big networks, and so I think that’s something you need to compete against even if your podcast is just as good or even better. Hey, if they have a marketing budget of hundreds of thousands of dollars, perhaps even a million dollars promoting their shows on other platforms and their own platform, algorithms will pick their shows. It’s just a very different world in 2020 than it was just two or three years ago, and we can probably only expect that to accelerate over the next few years.
So to sum up my answer to your question, it’s easier than ever to start a new podcast of good quality, and reach hundreds of listeners. However, if you want to make a living out of podcasting and have a top 1% podcast status with tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of listeners per episode, due to how the industry has changed, unfortunately, it’s become a bit more difficult, but luckily, not impossible at all to do. I really hope this comes off as an encouragement for everyone to get started with podcasting. And if you’d want to make a living out of it, you may then make the decision whether or not to put in that extra work down the line.
Shawn Flynn 16:04
So if someone’s crazy enough to still want to do a podcast after that amazing heartwarming motivational speech, what equipment are needed, what software is needed? Please give us the information and everything.
Stig Brodersen 16:15
A question that I always get is about equipment. When it comes to that, I think it really depends on your level of ambition. I guess 99% of the people who wanted to start podcasts, and you can include me in that equation, went into it supposedly just for fun. We have a message to the world, something we’re passionate about, and that’s great.
You can get started with just $50. You can buy a microphone or even use your smartphone headset to get you started. The audio quality won’t be as good but it doesn’t really have to cost you anything to get started. I think you can go on Anchor, which provides free hosting or something close to that if you’re a new podcaster. It doesn’t have to be fancy.
I know my response earlier was probably discouraging. If you hate your day job and want to make a living doing podcasts, I’ll completely respect that, but if you want to do that, you will need to do something different or a little more. If you say, “I just want to have fun.” That’s just another setup. If you want to do this professionally, you probably need to buy really good podcasting equipment, which is still not as expensive as it is compared to quality equipment required for many other venture options. With a few thousand dollars, you can have your own studio. That’s obviously still a lot of money for getting started, but that’s for if you want to sound like you’re sitting next to each other even when you’re not. But you can also just make it sound like Shawn is in Silicon Valley right now, while I’m in Denmark.
I think that there’s an underappreciation for really, really good audio. We get bombarded with so many things all the time that if the audio quality’s bad, unless we have a deep connection to the host, we’d probably look for an excuse not to listen to that podcast. So I think the equipment is very important.
I think one piece of advice I could give to someone interested in checking podcasting out first, and getting started, is to use your phone or get a $30 USB microphone. Get started and test it out. Set up your own feed, it can be completely free. Make a lot of mistakes, and if you feel that this is something you want to do, if you really want to be serious about this, you can perhaps spend a bit more on the equipment and set up a new feed. Do it all over and take it from there.
Shawn Flynn 18:37
You’ve mentioned a lot there. Can you go into more detail on maybe if there’s any equipment to edit the podcast? Or any software or platform recommendations? Or a process from start to finish?
Stig Brodersen 18:52
Here on the network, we use something called Adobe Audition. I think the cost of that is something like $20/month. There are a lot of great free software out there too. I might not be the right person to ask though because we do this for a living. Aside from Adobe Audition, there are also other great paid software out there. You just get a bit more. But you can probably get 90% of that just from the free software you’re already using that might already come with the computer that you have. So much can be improved with the editing, but 80% of the value is just cutting out a lot of rambling, like what I’m doing now.
Another thing I would like to point out is that, going into podcasting, regardless of the level of ambition you have, I think it’s very important as you plan the first few episodes that you consider the transition you want the listener to go through, and really have that as your basis. With “transition”, I’ll use the example of our stock investing podcast in which we typically try to have two to three key takeaways for the listener. So, what do you want your listeners to retain? It might be a different type of strategy, so you have points to relate back to or you might want to keep summarizing. We might have a specific guest in mind whom we can point to who has credentials for that transition or that key takeaway that we want to give.
I think that might sound like it’s constraining for some people, but I think it could actually set you free in many ways because you can easily develop a mental block when your start podcasting. You could end up just staring at a blank piece of paper, and wonder what to talk about. But if you start with, “Hey, these are two or three things I want the listeners to learn, or to take away from my podcast for that specific episode,” I think it would be very, very helpful for new podcasters.
Shawn Flynn 20:47
How do analytics play a part in podcasting? And what are you looking for when you’re looking at the data, the screens of the listeners?
Stig Brodersen 20:55
I don’t feel that I do a good job of doing analytics. As with so many other companies, we have so much data, but we don’t always tend to use that data. I’m sure it’s something other people probably take note of as they think about their own business or job. There are a lot of good things to be said about following data. There are different ways of naming an episode that is more attractive to people. In Apple Podcasts, which is still the biggest platform, you can get a lot of data and see when people drop off. You can find out, “Why did people drop off there?”
To give you a very recent example of naming episodes, so with anything that’s happening with the COVID-19, every time we talked about it on the show, and every time we put that on the title of that specific episode, we just know that we get more listeners. But I also think it can be a bit dangerous to be too focused on the data. If I had to talk about COVID-19 and the impact on the market every single week, those episodes would be really, really bad because I don’t have anything new to say every time single week about that. So you must focus on being true to yourself. People also need to know what they’re getting whenever they’re listening to your show. If you are really passionate about talking about this type of technology, even though you may see another type of technology is more popular, if you don’t care about that, it might be a short-term gain. But it’s definitely going to be a long-term pain having data steer you in ways you don’t want to be steered.
Shawn Flynn 22:29
With that, say someone wanted to make podcasts in either a professional career or a side hustle or something. What are the ways that they can make money?
Stig Brodersen 22:40
The most popular way is to use advertising. When you listen to podcasts for 10, 15, or 20 minutes, or whenever it is, as you get to this exciting spot in the podcast, someone says, “Hey, let’s take a quick break. I want to sell you a mattress.” That’s how many podcasters are making money, including ourselves. I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with that. I remember I had a lot of difficulty going into that. “Oh. To really use advertising, is that a good way to start monetizing?” We tried many different things. We try paid podcasting without ads, and we tried the current format. We tried different formats, too, but it turns out people, at least yet, are not super happy about paying for content without ads. Very often, people like the content, and they’re okay with the ads.
So, advertising is how most podcasters are making money. If you’re interested, we can later talk about some of the rates and how many downloads you need to have to make a living out of it, but that’s one way to go. You would typically need to reach a given amount of downloads before you become interesting to most advertising, at least if you’re doing deals with them. There are certain platforms where the provider will set that up all for you. They would get a generous cut off of that, of course. But then, even if you only have 100 downloads or 200 downloads, you would probably wouldn’t do personalized ads, but you could still get something similar to a radio spot, and you can make money off that.
Other podcasters promote their own products. In many ways, you can say that podcasting is like marketing. Hopefully, it’s more than marketing. Hopefully also, it provides a lot of value. But if you are an expert on a specific field, say different types of technology, say that you just have this specialty in AI, you might have a course talking about AI. you might have written a book about AI. and you can totally use your podcast as a way to start funneling sales for yourself.
And a third avenue could be affiliate marketing. You might not have your own products, but you might have other products that you’re very passionate about. The good thing is the product has already been created. You don’t even need to create your own product. But then you, of course, depend on having a good relationship with that company.
Shawn Flynn 25:03
Podcast host new to the arena, how would they create that relationship with the advertisers for the show?
Stig Brodersen 25:11
Unless you reach a given size, it’s quite difficult. The way it works, at least right now, is that most advertisers, say that they have a million dollars. Of that million dollars, typically, only a few percent that would go to podcast advertising, and they won’t necessarily go to one specific show. They might do that if you’re Tim Ferriss. If you have a huge podcast, they might go directly to you. But very often, it would go through agencies. They would go to an agency, the biggest one out there would be Ad Results Media. They would, of course, take a cut.. That’s why we have them. That’s all well and good, and why we like them. They make it easy for you as a podcaster to get access to that podcast advertising. Say that they would get a budget of $200,000. Then they can spread that over multiple shows. That’s simply how it works.
A lot of the relationships with advertisers go through agencies. Huge shows with 100,000 downloads and up, not all of it, but some would definitely happen directly from the advertiser to the podcast host. For medium-sized podcasts that have about 10,000 to 100,000, a lot of interaction would go through agencies. For podcasts with less than 10,000, you can still land some deals but very often, the way to monetize this may be through a platform where your podcast joins a pool of perhaps 100 different podcasts on a platform like Megaphone or something like that, then lands a huge deal and spreads out over hundreds of podcasts.
Shawn Flynn 26:53
Well, let’s cover some of the numbers then. If one wanted to turn podcasts into career, what are the numbers of listeners someone would need to be able to do that?
Stig Brodersen 27:02
Just to present a few terms from the industry; typically, we refer to the gross CPM or net CPM. CPM is equivalent to 1,000 downloads after 30 days from release. The rate for that would be something like $20, sometimes up to $40 gross CPM. When I say gross CPM, it’s before the agencies come in. Agencies typically charge between 15-30%, depending on the volume you bring, what type of show it is, and what their own policy is. A lot of that would be a lot closer to $20 than $40.
In the good old days, which was a few months ago, you especially had a lot of advertising dollars from Silicon Valley. I’m not just saying Silicon Valley because I’m now speaking with you, Shawn, on your show, Silicon Valley. You have a lot of money coming from Silicon Valley for different reasons. They were willing to pay $40, $50, sometimes even more, for 1,000 downloads. Let’s see what’s going to happen now. A crisis is typically not good for advertising.
But I think what is important to understand when you hear me talking about rates and if you might look up different numbers online, a lot of those numbers were created at a time when there was a bull market, when the economy was strong. At the time, we saw a lot of money flowing in to brand awareness. You especially saw that from Silicon Valley. New products, where there’s no direct response for the podcaster. What I mean by direct response is that, like with the mattress for instance, the advertisers put x thousand dollars into your campaign, and they expect to see so many mattresses being sold. That’s good direct response for the advertiser because they can track all that, but it’s not necessarily as good for the podcaster.
What was happening was that we saw a lot of money come into brand awareness. Like we saw a lot of tech companies that needed to show investors for their B round or C round or whatnot that they had more sales. They didn’t really have to focus too much on the cost. It wasn’t like, “Hey, we’re putting $1,000 in. We need $1,000 out.” It might be more like, “If you put $1,000 in and we can show improved sales of $300. Nevermind the cost.” It might actually make sense for them to do that, because they were just having a different mindset. They were not talking about profitability. That wasn’t the focus. Keeping that in mind, we’ve already seen that that has dried up that type of brand awareness a lot. It’s definitely not completely gone, but we’ve seen a lot of that disappear over the last few months.
Some of the rates call it $20 closer to that net, so after the cost from the agency, perhaps down to $15, depending on what’s happening. Then you can sort of like say, “Oh, how much money would I need to make a living out of this?” or “If I have this as a side hustle, what would be beneficial for me?” You could sort of do the numbers based on that.
The last thing I just want to say to is we’re just talking about one ad spot here. We’re not just talking about number of downloads. So, you can have 1, 2, 3, even 10 ad spots. It’s up to you how many ad spots you want to have. Advertisers particularly would not want you to have more than, 2 to 4 ad spots because the more you have, the more you dilute the other advertisers that are also on your show. So, it’s just to give you some sort of ballpark number if you are serious about doing podcasts for a living. It can be a little stressful from time to time, but it’s still the most amazing thing to do. I hope I do sell that well. I haven’t regretted that for a second. It’s a lot of fun doing podcasting for a living.
Shawn Flynn 30:50
In your journey, who have been some of the podcast hosts that you’ve gotten some tips from, or takeaways from that you implement? Which of the podcast hosts do you admire?
Stig Brodersen 31:00
I think you’re a great host, Sean. I’m saying that because talking is so natural to you. Talking, interviewing, it just seems very natural to you. It’s not for me, for many of the podcasts that I have, it can easily take me 8-12 hours preparing for that. I’m not just talking about reading a book and then preparing. I’m actually talking about what is it that I want to say. If people feel I’ve been rambling a lot, they’ll listen to this and wonder, “Stig, how can you ever make a living out of podcasting?” I’m usually on the other side of the microphone, typically not the one being interviewed, so I’m being put on the spot a few times here, which is perfectly fine. But it doesn’t come naturally to me to speak about complicated topics in a language that’s, by the way, not even my native language. It’s very, very difficult for me to do so whenever I speak with someone like you, Shawn. I’m like, “Geez, you skipped the first three years of podcasting and just hit the ground running because it comes naturally to you.” I think you do an amazing job.
Another host I really admire would be someone like Guy Raz from How I Built This. He’s so good at making it all about the guest. He’s so well-prepared. He’s such a good storyteller. And he doesn’t take focus away from the story. I think, even if you’re not interested in startups, I would listen to his podcast, How I Built This, just to understand how talented he is, and how good he is of making people comfortable, and driving the story in a good way for everyone.
Shawn Flynn 32:32
I really like Guy Raz. I really think he’s able to capture and connect with this guest and bring out emotions and story and do it at a level that everyone can understand. So yeah, I’m a huge fan of him as well. But I also want to ask you, in your podcast journey, you said you started in 2014. I mean, you’ve been at it 6 years now. Ups and Downs. What are some things, if you were to start over, that would you do differently?
Stig Brodersen 32:55
I think there are ton of things I would do differently. I made so many mistakes that it’s just unbelievable. But I do have a few things I would like to highlight. I think that I would have liked to build a team much faster, if I could. I know it sounds like I came in and I invested a ton of money. I definitely didn’t invest a ton of money. I bought decent equipment, but I never put in like money to hire staff. All of this has always been internally generated. But I would still say that I would like to have hired programming hours and designer hours much sooner. I know that before I talked about why it might not be a good idea for you to hire someone freelance. I think it’s actually a very good idea to do that in the very beginning because your time is just so valuable and even a freelance designer can probably do better design than you can unless you’re really good with design already. And so I think as soon as I had $100 or $50, I would have put that into some design hours.
I think I was also too frugal to begin with. I feel that I would much rather spend 100 hours on something instead of spending $100, and was just ridiculous. Whenever you think about your hourly wage, I think there’s a lot of good to be said about sweat equity, but I think I definitely overdid it to begin with. And I should have started with that much sooner. For most people who might be starting a podcast if they don’t have managerial experience, and even if you do have, it’s just different whenever you have a podcast. You’re not in the same setting. For me, I already had started my own company years before I started the podcast. I already had hired and fired people, and I felt I was well-prepared in many ways. I was definitely not prepared at all for doing that.
So, the sooner you can get started hiring a freelancer somewhere, whatever that would be, a few hours here and there, I think that’s very important especially if you’re doing it as a side hustle. You really need to respect your own time and not just spend it in vain.
The other thing is something I probably shouldn’t tell anyone listening to your podcast, Shawn, because they know all about minimal viable product. It was a brand new concept to me when I got started. Believe it or not, I never heard about it before. I had to read about it in The Lean Startup years in. It never occurred to me that you can do something like that. I used to be the person who would make sure that everything would be “perfect” before you send it out, then realized people couldn’t care less, and wasted 3, 6, 12 months.
For you, out there, it probably seems like a no-brainer, especially for someone like you being in Silicon Valley. But it’s something I would like to have done much sooner, to start up more projects, fail a lot faster, and then scale what worked. I know a lot of people have been saying that, and it sounds so simple, but actually doing it, putting your own name out there, your own face up there, and then fail, and be okay with that? I should have done that much sooner. I think it’s just a matter of if you fail once, it sucks. If you fail twice, it sucks twice as much. When you fail 100 times, it’s just statistics. Right?
So, Sean, keep all of this in mind, what we talked about here. And then, sort of to like have an idea of what it’s in the horizon for you, for the listeners who do not know what’s in store for you, what are your plans for Silicon Valley? What are your plans for future projects?
Shawn Flynn 36:30
Actually, one of the greatest things about this episode is that this is kind of, I don’t want to say, the farewell episode to The Investor’s Podcast platform. We’re always going to have a strong connection. But Stig and I have been talking about the future with his guidance, his blessing, and all the knowledge I’ve taken over the last almost year, to be honest, since I first sat down with Stig. I’m going to branch off and do my own podcast. It’s going to be called The Silicon Valley Podcast. If you want to check it out, the website is thesiliconvalleypodcast.com. The focus is going to be very similar to what’s already happening right now on TIP. There are going to be some changes to it. I’m excited, and I’m also a little bit nervous because I do know all the hours that other people are doing for me right now that I’m somehow going to have to figure out how to either do on my own or also hire that first team that Stig just alluded to. So we’re going to see what happens in the coming months.
Stig Brodersen 37:28
Shawn, it’s very interesting to hear about the new journey that you are set out to do. I would definitely be your very first subscriber on the show. I’m personally a big fan of Silicon Valley, and I’m really happy that it continues in a new format.
What is the main takeaway that you have here from working on The Investor’s Podcast Network? And seeing what works and what doesn’t work, what is the number one thing that made you think, “Hmm, this is what I need to do in the new format”?
Shawn Flynn 37:58
Well, first off, I’d like to say, working with TIP, in a way, has actually ruined all podcasts for me, considering that now, every time I listen to a podcast, I hear the “uhms” and “ahh”. The quality there, that at one time, never bothered me, but now it just drives me crazy, especially after hours and hours of editing and taking these out. So, I want to thank Stig and all the amazing editors in that for now-ruining that art of podcast for me.
I think the biggest thing for me it’s going to be the process. That’s something I really have to know step-by-step, from reaching out to the guests to setting up the questions to the interview to the editing to the launch of the episodes to the follow-up with the guests and the marketing. There are just so many steps in it for if you want to get that podcast in the top 1%.
So with that, Stig, thank you for giving me the opportunity at the end there to advertise what I’m about to do, and what my journey is moving forward. So with that, if anyone at home wants to find out more information about TIP and Stig, what’s the best way to go about doing that?
Stig Brodersen 39:09
You can go to theinvestorspodcast.com, and you can see all of our shows. You will still see Silicon Valley there. We’re very, very proud and honored to feature Shawn’s show, Silicon Valley, on the network. And we will still continue to do that in the future.
Shawn Flynn 39:22
All the other listeners, remember my new podcast is called The Silicon Valley Podcast, and the website for it is thesiliconvalleypodcast.com. I look forward to continuing a relationship with everyone.
Once again, Stig, thank you for this opportunity that I’ve had. I really feel blessed and honored.
To all the listeners at home, please continue listening to the new show.
Stig, thank you again for your time.
Stig Brodersen 39:47
Thank you also, Shawn. Thank you so much for being a part of The Investor’s Podcast Network.
Outro 39:52 Thank you for listening to The Silicon Valley Podcast. To access our resources, visit us at TheSiliconValleyPodcast.com and follow our host on Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn @ShawnFlynnSV. This show is for entertainment purposes only and is licensed by The Investors Podcast Network. Before making any decisions, consult a professional.
